Interview transcript

secondary student perceptions

The transcript is of an interview with a secondary age learner who attended an after school science enrichment programme: ASCEND

This is copyright material - not to be copied or reproduced in any form:

K: Interviewer (Keith)

C: Student study participant ('Cathy')

(Cathy was not the participant’s real name, but is a pseudonym.)

K : So I’m going to talk to you about two things one is basically about um what you do in school particularly in terms of science . . .

C : Mm

K : . . . and one is about I’m going to ask you about some science . . . see what you can understand about some science . . . yeh ? . . . you okay ? . . .[see transcription conventions]

C : (laughing) . . . (I’m actually) horrified (laughs) . . .

K : Uuum . . . so that’s what we’re going to do . . . don’t be worried about it cos it’s . . . um . . . you know there’s no sort of expectations or anything . . . so if we start with the easy one . . . cos that’s just asking you your opinions

C : yeh . . .

K : So . . . you can’t get those wrong can you . . . (so) . . .

C : Yeh

K : Yeh ? . . . first maybe you could tell me your name nice and clearly . . . ?

C : (deleted)

K : Your date of birth ?

C : (deleted)

K : . . . and which school do you go to ?

C : (deleted)

K : and do you like it ?

C : Yes . . .

K : Good . . .

C : . . . most of the time (laughing)

K : Yeh most of the time. Can you tell me which subjects you enjoy most at school and which subjects you enjoy least ?

C : Um I’m pretty good at Linguistics er I learn Latin, French and German so they’re probably more my favourites and probably my least favourite . . . is either Maths or English . . . I’m I’m . . . it’s not so much that . . . cos I’m okay at them I’m not really . . . I I know that I’m not bad at them, but I just don’t find them very enjoyable, maybe the way they’re taught but . . .

K : . . . the way they’re taught ?

C : Mm . . .

K : . . .Oh I see, so if they’re taught differently, you might have a different view about that ?

C : the thing is that for me English is all about creativity, but the way we’re taught it isn’t, it’s more about analysing things and going over things over and over again, and so that’s just not appealing to me

K : (what) the same things over and over again ?

C : usually yes (laughing)

K : so why do they go over the same things over and over again ?

C : I don’t know I don’t know how many different ways you can analyse a poem but apparently there are quite a lot . . . mm . . . {clears throat} . . .

K : . . .Ha, okay, I wouldn’t know I . . .

C : {nervous laugh} .[see transcription conventions]

K : Uuum . . . what kind of activities do you think help you learn in classes at school ?

C : . . . if I’m in a class with a lot of people I know are friends, it helps to work um in a group, because it’s always good to brainstorm ideas, but sometimes if you’re put in a group or with or if you’re with people that you don’t get on with so well, it’s more difficult to share ideas . . . but also . . . I’m I’m the sort of person who does work quite well alone, so for me it’s qui- it’s nice having . . . it is nice working with people and talking to teacher but at the same time it’s always good to sort of get on with it t- . . . jus(t) . . . yeh to just be able to work through it, and if once it’s explained to me I can u- . . . once something’s explained to me I can usually apply it in different ways . . . but often if I don’t understand it and I can’t get any help, then it’s just very very frustrating so . . . that’s the good (unclear word) to have to talk to someone . . .

K : . . . ya does it happen often that you can’t understand things and there’s no help available ?

C : It depends, in subjects like Maths pa- I do find that (one) quite hard and so what’s good for me there is that I sit next to my friend and she always she always helps me understanding it . . . but in another subject . . . I can(t) just in a lot of subjects sometimes (unclear word) sit next to someone who doesn’t understand it as as well as I do, I often have to explain it to them, which is quite useful for me cos it helps me to get it clearer in my own head, but if I don’t understand anything there, and it sometimes helps to get hold of the teacher because, they’re one in front of thirty . . .

K : . . . Mm . . . okay yeh ? . . . um what kind of activities do you think help you learn when you’re in private study ?

C : it’s quite unusual but for me I like to have um I like to have noise around me for some reason I always like having music kind of things when I’m doing work, but for serious revision I do like it being quieter . . .

K : . . . now (unclear word) this serious revision

C : things like for GCSEs if it’s just if it’s just something . . . y’know gentle going over something or if its homework which doesn’t require so much brainpower . . . it’s i ~~~ it’s something I understand quite well already, I can do that I like having music on cos it makes it a bit more enjoyable, but the other thing that I do quite often is I do, go find my brother or my mum or someone and I try to explain it to them or I try to run it thr- by them, because then qu-. . . they can point out if something’s wrong and I can act- if I can explain it to someone I know that I’ve understood it . . .

K : . . . Mmm . . . now I find that quite interesting what you said about music because I . . . I find I like to have music on nearly always when I’m doing things . . .

C : Yeh . . . yeh . . .

K : . . . I can’t stand noise what I call noise in the background that’s disruptive, but wh- music’s okay, but occasionally if I’m really concentrating on something I do need to turn it all off and just listen . . . think, y’know . . .

C : I think it all depends cos if it’s something I just can’t get straight in my head I just can’t understand it, I do need time silence, just so that I can work it all out . . . but . . . for something which doesn’t require so much (unclear word) something I understand then yes quite it’s quite nice to have music on

K : Mm . . . yeh so is it just about making it more enjoyable, do you think . . .

C : yes . . . I think it’s because it’s just a habit I’ve picked up when I was younger because . . . um . . . if . . . m . . . in the lower years of the school I found it all (a lot) easier because . . . I was usually dealing with things that I was better at actually. . . and it jus’ all felt easier so when I had to do long homework that was very boring, I had to have something else to do otherwise it just didn’t get done, I just kept putting it off, so I used to make it more enjoyable for myself

K : . . . Mm . . . okay and now you got into the habit of (it) . . .

C : yeh . . . {laughs} . . .

K : . . . uuum . . . this is this is particularly about science then rather than general (thing) what kind of things do you do most of your science lessons at school . . .

C : in most of our science lessons, it does vary from science to science, cos in things like Biology and Chemistry, we can do make more . . . practical experiments that (unclear word) more things that can go wrong, because you’re dealing with chemicals and things, whereas in Physics . . . um like quite recently we’ve been doing a lot more talking, and a lot more computer work which I find . . . I find them both enjoyable but they’re both different . . . an’ . . . I suppose with Physics it’s also quite it’s harder to do things practically because one of the topics we’ve been studying is Space

K : Mm

C : and so that’s much harder to (unclear word) with practicals . . . but yes so I think we do tend to get in quite a few practicals . . . but at the same time there’s also quite a lot of stuff that needs to be understood because I think that one of my teachers told me that Year 10 Science is actually harder than Year 11, because you’ve got just to get the basics done you’ve got to understand it all like a lot of theories, and then you can begin to apply other stuff to it . . .

K : okay . . . some of these questions might be a bit repetitive . . .

C : Yeh . . . yeh . . .

K : cos it’s the first time I’ve used these questions so . . . bear with me . . . (2-5 unclear words). . .

C : {laughs}

K : . . . Um . . . what so they’re the things you do most times in Science, are there other things you do in Science lessons (you count) occasionally ?

C : Uumm just trying to think . . .

K : (I’m) trying to get kind of the range of activities (couple of unclear words) . . . do you do just do the three or do you do the six . . . (I know) some people do do Triple Science and six su-

C : Oh . . . no I’m just Double Science . . .

K : cos then they do six lots of different science at once then . . .

C : {laughs nervously}

K : gets confusing, doesn’t it ?

C : Yeh . . . I just do Double Science, but I think that’s quite most of the Science lessons do involve explaining a new topic and then trying to find a practical for it or some way to make it clearer an’ then I think it does depend on a teacher sometimes, but as a rule I think we end up answering questions or just trying or just talking about it because, as I said we’ve been doing Space and things in Physics and what we’ve been trying to do is come (up) with theories, an’ things what will happen to the universe . . .

K : Mmm . . .

C : . . . and then looking at famous people er famous (pe)theories like the expanding universe and things like that just . . . and so yes that is hard to do practicals for but we do end up doing more discussion which I like I find that interesting . . .

K : yeh . . . why ?

C : . . . I think it’s just interesting to hear other people’s ideas because out of the three sciences Physics is my weakest, and so it’s always useful to hear other people’s ideas, and it’s always . . . just . . . I think I’m quite a creative person, it does appeal to my creative side applying logic to some . . . to an idea

K : . . . so so why do you think Physics is your weakest ?

C : I think it’s the hardest for me to get my head around . . . and . . . yes there generally tends to be quite a lot of Maths mixed up in it . . . I find that harder . . . {K :. . . er ah . . . }

K : . . . Mmm . . . see cos you said Maths wasn’t your strongest subject . . .

C : it’s not it’s . . . I don’t know why It just really isn’t {laughs} . . . it’s a bit depressing cos I come from a family of mathematicians and physicists so {laughs}

K : Oh . . . that might explain a lot, yeh . . . um an observation okay ah I don’t think { C : laughs} there is very much Maths in Physics at GCSE . . .

C : . . . I . . . I know that compared to a lot of much higher level Physics there is very little, but for me that little’s enough, and I think also it’s because a lot of people do tend to mix them up, they do tend to . . . like for me it becomes a bit more Physics it’s very (unclear word) timed and it’s just the way I see it in my mind I guess, and it’s hard to disassociate the two sometimes

K : yeh . . . I mean a lot of people do say there’s a lot of Maths in Physics and it’s (unclear 2-3 words) whether you mean quantitatively or qualitatively, there’s a lot of Maths in the sense that a lot of the Physics involves Maths but . . . it’s not . . . {C : but . . .you (unclear words) around it} it’s not actually much Maths in the sense that it’s mostly just Arithmetic . . . maybe occasionally a bit of Geometry Trig type stuff . . . but . . . really just Arithmetic . . .

C : . . . mm . . . but you can (work) around it because I was reading a book on Einstein a while ago and it had, it was (in English) it promised that there would be about two equations in it explaining his theories with no Maths in it which was very nice for me I’ve got to say . . . {longish sigh} . . .

K : . . . no okay so which things in Science lessons do you most enjoy?

C : . . . I’d say probably the practicals because they’re a lot more hands-on and it’s also interesting to look at it and also just think out whether it’s going right or wrong, because in some of our practicals at school the teachers actually won’t tell us what should be happening, so . . . um we get to . . . sor(t of) . . . some of the (unclear word) say ‘why do you think this is happening?’ ‘What um . . . do you think this is what is meant to happen’, because quite often it just goes wrong, it’s always interesting because you can learn a lot from the failures as well as the successes

K : okay . . .

C : an’ also it’s nice being able to work with people an’ . . . an’ it also brings out the bossy side of me {laughs}

K : have you got a bossy side ?

C : yeh . . . definitely ! {laughs}

K : so which things in science lessons do you least enjoy?

C : . . . I think that would be quite . . . I’d say . . . qua’ . . . I think the thing that I can say that I enjoy least is that actually in Physics we have ended up doing bits of Maths sometimes which are quite . . . things like working out how electrical power and things like tha’, and I find that harder, but just in general, I think sometimes it can be just . . . just sometimes work can get quite repetitive, because it can just (somehow) be just answering questions from a text book over and over again it doesn’t really further your understanding so much because the answers are usually in the text you’ve just got to be able t’ know where to find them

K : Mmm

C : and . . . I like being able to ask questions an’ get ans- I like . . . I like exploring too more I think . . .

K : real(ly) . . .

C : more than just what a text book tells me {little sigh} . . .

K : okay . . . I mean these these are different questions, but you may say it’s the same answers, so . . . {C : yeh laughs}

um . . . which things in Science lessons do you find most interesting ?

C : . . . it’d be hard to say cos I think out of all of them my favourite science is Biology and Chemistry, but for different reasons, I like the human side of Biology, and for Chemistry I don’t know why I find that so fascinating but I just do, I . . . I think there is something quite fascinating in it all, an’ I’m probably not articulating this very well, but . . . and so I think I find quite a lot more interesting in them . . . but . . . sometimes in things like Physics it is harder for me to find the interest, because the subject(s) seem quite . . . almost alien, an’ thi- I’m trying to understand about things like Space . . . and Electricity and I’m just useless at that and it becomes very sort of abstract, in a way . . .

K : okay so it’s just somebody who’s reading a book about Einstein’s work

C : Mmm that was recommended to me by my brother to help me understand . . . he’s {K : . . . ye-ah . . .} a physicist ri(ght) .[see transcription conventions]

K : but a lot of people wouldn’t sit down and spend and spend time reading a book about Einstein’s work unless they were interested

C : I do find it interesting but I think it was - - - also the fact that it was also a biography, I’m very interested in people . . . um as well as the work, it wasn’t . . . it wasn’t solely about his work and I think tha’ I found that interesting as well, but it was just something that my brother recommended, and I did find it interesting . . . but . . . yeh at points I did have to go back and re-read the same bit just a couple of times just because I was thinking I really need to get this (all) straight in my head, because the other thing I found with Physics if I stop concentrating just for a little bit if I let myself(unclear word – maybe ‘zone’) out for a few minutes, I come back and I’ve no idea what’s going on

K : maybe you’re not meant to (zone) out during lessons

C : Mmm, but I do anyway I’m terrible {laughs} {K : laughs}

K : it doesn’t normally matter . . . you get away (with it) most of the time, do you?

C : yes . . . {laughs}

K : ah, I see . . .

C : well, I think it’s just that sometimes I do let myself just . . . drift away an’ daydream about something else or I start thinking about it, because actually when I daydream I do often daydream about something relevant . . . but . . . it . . . it’s still {K : aaah . . .} daydreaming it’s still taking me away from the point . . . an’ I have an’ I think my daydreams are quite abstract which is maybe (why) Physics gets quite abstract for me {laughs}

K : okay give me an example so you’re in you’re in a Physics class and the teacher’s talking about some topic . . . and you sort of disappear off somewhere . . . on a kind of {C : Mmm} {C : yeh} tangent . . . or (unclear word) starting with a topic . . . {C : Mmm . . . it’s just that more . . .}

C : . . . well it’s just more . . . thinking about a topic I think something we were doing ba- in Physics was Earthwise, and how us- . . . useful they are in electrith . . . in electrical products . . . (unclear word) an’ I was just thinking back to em . . . um to the firs- . . . to the very first electrical things, um just thinking how do they all develop this do you think was it just something that happened by chance did they actually think or was it actually tha’ people started to get electrocuted from using these products if peop- how did it all happen? . . . and I do that quite a lot with things, I just have I like knowing the ‘how’ the ins and outs of everything . . .

K : Hmmm . . .

C : . . . and the other one of my other favourite subjects is History, and I find knowing the history of things is quite interesting an’ so . . . I just end up thinking about it all an’ thinking ‘wh- why did they come up with this idea?’ ‘how did they come up with this idea?’ . . . um did it just suddenly pop into their heads ? . . . or was it a dream? or was it just a weird idea ? . . . um I just find it interesting knowing how people get their inspiration

K : that’s a difficult question to answer though, isn’t it? Because unless they {C : yeh} happen to say so to write it down at the time we would never know

C : but it’s just one of those weird things I like to speculate about, just think about how . . . I’m just . . . I’m just quite strange in that way I just like knowing how people come up with their ideas . . .

K : okay . . . I mean are there things in sc- I mean (these are)sort of things in Science you say you’re least you’re less interested in . . . or things you do in Science you’re {C : yeh} less interested in, are there sometimes things in Science you’d actually say were boring ?

C : I don’t think Science is boring as a whole I don’t I actually find Science very interesting, but certain aspects I think I could learn about quite quickly, things like Electricity I really could learn that topic very quickly but we did take it at quite a slow pace to make sure everyone understood it, and so by the end of it I was thinking okay this is really really boring I don’t want another lesson on this, I really want to move on . . . and I sometimes get (unclear word) in other subjects just because . . . I { K : Mmm} . . . I’ve understood it and I want to move on an’ but maybe not everyone has an’ so they an’ so they need time to catch up but, just for me it becomes quite repetitive

K : so it wasn’t the topic of Electricity that was boring you, it was just spending so long {C : yeh} . . . going over a certain amount of material . . . yeah ? { C : Mmm}

C : I like to have variety in what I do otherwise I do get quite bored . . . and I think usually because the three sciences are so different Science becomes actually quite interesting but once . . . you . . . but if we do the same thing over and over again it does become very boring . . . I think the worst bit is that with some things about Electricity I already knew the answers I already understood bits of it

K : what before you actually did the topic at all ?

C : Mmm because my brother he is . . . older than me and I’m I helped him revise for GCSEs, everything on Physics an’ so I he got . . . um . . . I don’t know everything I’m quite it’s not particularly I’m not very good at it but I did pick up on some concepts, an’ so parts of it I was just thinking okay done this move on . . .

K : . . . Hmm . . . yeh that’s fair enough . . . um . . . which things in Science lessons do you think are most useful to you?

C : . . . I think it depends because for a lot of people I think they would say that there’s something quite practical in kn- in knowing things about Electricity an’ knowing things about the . . . th- . . .an’ . . . knowing things about the body (I think), but . . . I don’t know I’m not really that much of a practical person . . . {laughs} . . . I think the most useful things . . . probably just things to do with the body because I’m really interested in Biology an’ it’s . . . and my stepmother she’s re- um . . . she’s actually training as a yoga teacher and she ha- an’ she has to learn the ins and outs - she’s a biochemist as well . . . and so she’s literally um studying all the ins and outs of {K : Mmm} just about everything and . . . I just find that very interesting because I’ll come home say something y’know . . . oh we learnt about this that an’ (the other) and she’ll add on to it and she make she makes it very practical actually because it’s things like oh yeh you can pull that muscle in sport and things it’s very easy but if you do this (sort of little) exercise, it can help . . . I don’t know I think it’s just interesting getting a { K : ah } couple of perspectives on things, and I think that’s what th’ most useful stuff is for me

K : so is there stuff then you’re doing in Science you(’d) say is not useful is least useful to you ?

C : well things like learning about Space because I don’t think that’s so useful to many people but . . . it’s still very interesting, but it’s not particularly useful it’s not the sort of thing that . . . um so many people I think would find . . . en- really really useful in their everyday lives . . . but . . . so I think it is (a) quite specific thing but I {K : Mmm} still think it’s very interesting . . . (sighs and mumbles inaudibly)

K : . . . okay . . . um . . . which things do you do in Science lessons do you think particularly help you learn Science, if that’s not (unclear words – maybe ‘just kind of’) what we’ve said before?

C : yeh, I think it’s sort of practicals because getting to talk people getting to compare with people it’s just interesting working in different groups and talking to people about how, y’know oh did yours do this did yours do that . . . {little laugh} and just {K : yeh} because it’s interesting seeing how it all works an’ just all the variables that (count or can have??)

K : what about things that don’t help you learn apart from just spending a lot of time going over something you already know, are there actually things you do in lessons (that doesn’t help) you learn anything ? . . . in science lessons?

C : mmm I don’t know nothing particular springs to mind because I think for me I can learn just I can learn pretty easily from anything reading a text book working with people watching a video I learn pretty well in a lot of different ways . . . mm . . . I {K : okay } think sometimes taking thing just watch making us take notes we don’t have to do this very much, but taking notes while watching a video or listening to a teacher can be counter-productive because you spend so long quite often you spend quite a long time writing down notes or trying- and so you miss bits and just for me I’m okay at it so usually I stay on top of everything but I think that quite often it gets disrupted because our friends have missed something and they want me and so they whisper to you um can you help me with this . . .

K : . . . and you miss something . . . . . yeah, what things in science lessons do you {C : . . .(laughs) . . .} think are most difficult ?

C : . . . mm do you mean topics or just in . . . ?

K : either topics or activities or anything wh- what about science would you say well that’s actually quite difficult for me . . .

C : mm . . . as I was saying probably as a subject Physics is the most difficult because . . .

K : because of the Maths ?

C : yes . . .

K : I don’t believe this you know, I think I think this is I think this is just a perception you have . . . I don’t know, my instinct is is this is just kind of you know you’ve got {C : yeah . . . . . I think . . . .} a little thing of, about the Maths . . . . I’m sure there’s no problem at all it needn’t be {C : yeah} {C : uh-ha} . . . anyway I’m asking you the questions (sorry) . . . {C : . . . (laughs) . . . }

C : . . . um . . . yes I think this it is hard certainly because it is quite a lot to get your head round sometimes, it does require a bit more imagination, but then again you can say the same thing about Chemistry with Particle Theory I think, but I’m not actually quite sure why I find it more difficult but I think you’re right I think it is something is probably tied up with Maths . . . mm . . . but . . . mm I’m not sure I don’t think . . . I don’t think anything I find anything . . . och ! . . . yeah, I don’t really know I mean I’m just trying to think about the things I find (really) difficult and not quite sure really it’s kindof hard I’m looking back (mumbles : I haven’t been at school for about a month) . . . {laughs} . . .

K : okay . . . when do you think you’d actually say that was easy . . . things you do in science well that’s just easy . . .

C : . . . . I don’t really know I mean a lot of . . . as I said a lot of things like Biology . . . I fin- I do find easier . . . well that one’s really the easiest, and quite often we’ve already covered it bit by bit going up the years in school so we started off looking at it more simply then in greater depth each year, so a lot of the basics you do already know it’s just more adding to your knowledge, but I think in some ways I’m not really I think I’m a bit biased because I’ve usually got quite a good memory for this sort of thing, and also I’m a bit of a speed reader I tend to take things in very quickly, so I don’t really find it difficult it’s more of a challenge to overcome, and . . .

K : . . .so are you saying with Biology it seems you kind of repeat things in more depth, because isn’t that supposed to be true with all of the subjects . . .?

C : yeah . . . but I think I think actually that might - - - - - - - - because we have made much more of a jump this year, because in Physics before it was taught Maths things like Electricity we’ve done that every year, but this year suddenly they . . . a lot more things got involved there were . . . there was more Maths there was . . . it was just it did all get into greater depth, but . . . I think in some other subjects repeating things over (again) I think it was a much more gradual thing . . . mm . . . and also yes I’ve got someone at home and they just tell me all this sort of things . . . it’s easier . . .

K : yeah . . . uuum . . . which which things all these questions are very much the same (so I get this from a different angle) . . . which different things in science lessons do you think really make you think . . . ?

C : . . . hmm . . . just trying to think I . . . a lot of the time a lot of these things we’ve been doing about Space do actually make you think quite a lot because a lot of a lot of it is very, a lot of it you do have to imagine a lot of it, it does really . . . i . . . it does make you think about it a lot, but . . . a lot of the time I think it’s more of these things where . . . we in Physics we don’t quite know what happens, here here is what we think happens but this is just, and so you do get much more of a . . . yeah more of an imagination . . . but . . . a lot of it is just quite interesting, because I’m the sort of person as I said to you who does like to know sort of the ins and outs of things, so I’m one of those people who perpetually ask why? . . . and so in things like Biology I just want to like (when I was younger) asking why the appendix is there and things and they’re not being able to give me a good answer and getting quite annoyed about that . . .

K : have you got a good answer yet ?

C : no . . . I’m looking for one I . . .

K : you haven’t got one . . . ? ahh . . . okay, so why do you think the appendix is there?

C : I don’t know some people say it’s um like from when humans used to eat grass and things like ’cause um I think it’s something to do with rabbits rabbits have got something like that in their appendix an’ they need to help them digest it all . . . but I don’t know just . . . um my brother had his appendix taken out when I was eleven or something and I remember going in and annoying the doctors about it and no-one being able to properly tell me . . .

K : . . . okay, we’ll come back to the appendix {C : yeah {laughs nervously}} uumm . . . how how much of the time would you say in your science lessons, what sort of proportion of time would you say science lessons actually really make you think . . .

C : . . . I think they usually make me think quite a lot but . . . at the same time quite often it is . . . um it depends on the way the science is taught, because for a lot of us it is, it stops me making you think when they say like this will be on your exam because then you don’t have time to think, you’re panicking . . . {Keith laughs} K : but I don’t think that’s the intention . . . it’s to get you to think, isn’t it? That’s {C laughs} meant to pull you back from those daydreams

C : but I think that’s seventy-five percent of the time, just roughly, I think it does make me think, and the other twenty-five percent it’s usually because it’s stuff that I . . . I already know a bit about (2 inaudible words), but also the thing I sometimes find I do do find quite constricting in science is a very, is that it’s sometimes it’s very water-tight, and as you can see I’m an incredibly imaginative person and sometimes I find that can kill my imagination slightly, but that’s something weird about me or something . . . {laughs} . . .

K : okay . . . um . . . let me ask you briefly about the Ascend sessions . . . did you {C : Mmm} enjoy those ?

C : Oh yes!

K: Why did you enjoy tho- what did you enjoy about them ?

C : I think yes it was more about the thin- it was more about thinking because I think there was quite a lot of philosophy and history of science all mixed in there, and also I did like the fact that we didn’t get told off (as) we got to figure them out for ourselves . . . (mumbles something inaudible as if she didn’t really want it to be heard) . . .

K : some people found that difficult . . .

C : yeah . . . but I . . . I just really enjoyed it, I think it’s, I think some people may have found it difficult because in our science lessons, that’s not always what we’re told to do sometimes it’s more the teachers telling us, and that’s probably just to constrict on time, it’s probably quicker to have (1 inaudible word) . . . {laughs} . . . but it’s just very liberating for me to just think about it for myself

K : good . . . do you think you might study science after you finish GCSEs ?

C : I’d like to, but I’m running out of A-level spots . . .

K : mmm . . . so (you’d like to do everything) . . . so what are your top subjects do { C laughs} {C : yeah . . . {laughs}} you think?

C : at the moment I’d like to do Music but (- - - as a) musician and Latin, because I’m quite sad {laughing} like that . . . but then I have two more spots and I can’t decide what to fill them with . . . so {little sigh} . . .

K : . . . yeah okay . . . so, d’you know where you’re going to go? . . . do you know {C : pardon?} where you’re going to go?

C : I’d like to go to Hills Road

K : {almost in a whisper} (so you’d like to go to Hills Road) . . . ah . . . if you did do Science at the Sixth Form what do you think it would be like, have you any sort of ideas what Science at Sixth Form’s like ?

C : . . . I’d like . . . I’d hope it’d be, it would be more like the Ascend sessions, it would be more, we do figure things out for ourselves, but I also know there probably would be quite a lot more of teaching . . . there . . . there probably would be just as much teaching as there was at GCSE, but I’d like there to be . . . a bit more, maybe more historical associations as well ’cause it would just be more interesting because that is what I found very interesting about the Ascend project, quite often taking home those booklets and having a flick through them, because as I’ve said, I do like I do find . . . things like Biographies very interesting . . .

K : . . . Mmm . . . okay . . . aahmmm . . . wha- what would most encourage you to stay on and study Science . . . so you’ve got a year (or) a few months before you start making your applications to Sixth Form . . . what kind of things would have to happen for you to say “I’ve changed my mind, my first choices are going to be sciences” ?

C : . . . um . . . probably a miracle result in my mock exams . . . a-n-n-n-d . . . {Keith laughs . . . K : what ? an A for Science and not for everything else, or . . . ?} . . . um . . . no, I’ve got A s in Science, but I’m just nervous about exams because they always make me nervous . . .

K : but (I wouldn’t be) too nervous (as long as) you’re getting the grades, but . . . yeah . . .

C : but I think I would like to see a little more of what Science would be like because I think that’s the one thing I don’t know. My brother took Physics at A-level, well he’s dropping it now because he really didn’t enjoy it really very much . . . he um he was the only person in the class who didn’t take it with Maths, and so he found that {K : Mmm} more confusing . . . more er . . . and I think he really did enjoy it at GCSE, but he didn’t enjoy it so much at A-level, I’d just, I think I’d like to almost go in and have a look, just have a good look round before I make my mind up, I’d just like to find out more really, see what it’s all like . . .

K : and that could apply to your other subjects as well . . . (things) like history and {C : oh yeah {spoken in a tone implying she freely admits this}} Latin or whatever, it could be very different at A-level

C : yeah er . . . I suppose that’s me all over, I just like to be cautious before I make a decision {laughs nervously}

K : no that’s absolutely right . . . you don’t get much of a chance to do that . . . {C : yeah} (it’s a - - - ) situation, yeah, you’re right . . . yeah . . . maybe you can borrow somebody’s files from their first year Sixth Form and have a look what they’ve been doing

C : I might need to talk to some people . . . um at some point just about what the science is like at Hills Road what (- - -) all the subjects . . . just get talk to some people who are doing some of the things I’m interested in . . . so . . .

K : okay, thank you very much. I’ll just ask you about the appendix then . . . so . . . {C laughs nervously} why didn’t you learn (- - -) appendix?

C : I don’t know {laughing} . . . quite frankly . . .

K : is it any use for anything?

C : well what it seems to do is get you in hospital when it swells up, so probably not {laughs} . . .

K : mmm that’s right, so how maybe that’s the proof that we haven’t evolved, surely had we evolved, natural selection would have done away with the appendix. Maybe {C : or maybe . . .} God created us as we are with an appendix, and maybe the appendix is there to remind us that we were created by God and we didn’t evolve . . . what d’you think?

C : interesting! {laughing}

K : are you going to agree or disagree? . . . just a suggestion . . .

C : no I think it’s interesting . . . I think, but I also think it could just be that we’re part-way through the evolutionary process ’cause we never stop evolving as far as I’m concerned, and I don’t think you can I mean the only (- - - ) perfect evolutionary point is the shark, because they’ve never evolved and they’re completely immune to all disease etc etc and . . .

K : not much personality though . . .

C : oh yeah {laughs} . . . but well unless you like being bitten . . . but . . . but yes, I think it shows that as humans we’re not we’re not really fully we’re not fully fully finished (in nature) we’ve got a long way to go before we become like the shark

K : I see so if you were to come back in several thousand generations’ time if we’re still here, do you think human beings will have lost their appendix or . . . ?

C : possibly . . . just the next step in the evolutionary process . . . (- - -) things like {K : yeah ?} {K : so . . . } sickle cell is the next?

K : so if you went back a couple of hundred generations, back in time, do you think people would’ve had bigger appendices?

C : . . . I wouldn’t have said they’d have bigger, I’d have thought they had something else something else inside them that . . . um we’ve lost over these years or something else . . . some other trait that . . . hhmm ? ( a sound like ‘whay’) . . . {laughs} . . . {K : a tail ? . . . . a tail ?}

K : we’ve still got we’ve still got a few bones at the bottom of the spine . . . yeah, {C : the Cox six, right?} could sort of make up a little tail, but it doesn’t stick out anymore . . . I . . . I’ll tell you what I . . . what I . . . I’ve (heard) about the appendix okay . . . that um w. . . we’ve evolved from creatures that did used to eat a lot of grass and so on, and if you’re going to try and digest cellulose you need a much more kind of longer (guts) to do that and the appendix enables this stuff to be mooshed up and digested away like a little bio-digester or something . . . yeah and over and over time human beings have {C : yeah} stopped eating grass to such an extent . . . so the appendix is obsol- is is (what is {C : so the appendix is obsolete} called) a vestibule organ and over time the appendix has got smaller and smaller and smaller . . . well no apparently because as it got smaller and smaller and smaller {C : and so it will disappear . . . aah . . .} apparently it becomes more and more likely that little bits of food get caught in it . . . and those little bits of food that get caught there start to get . . . um . . . attacked by ( - - - ) digested by other bacteria and they get infection and people get appendicitis which in the days before emergency treatment, then they would’ve died! So, there was there was an environmental er evolutionary pressure for the appendix to get smaller because there’s no point investing a lot of resources in an organ you’re not going to use for anything, but when it got to a certain size (it’s in a) a balance between the pressure not to waste any resources and the pressure to avoid too many people dying from appendicitis, so we now at a kind of balance point where any smaller {C : gosh !} appendix will mean we’d be rushed off with appendicitis before we’re old enough to spread our genes y’know . . . that’s the story I heard

C : that’s interesting . . .

K : I don’t know if it’s true . . . thing is it’s feasible, isn’t it? Yeah ?

C : yeah !

Length of interview : 32:03

Index of topics