Some stars are closer than the planets

Stars look so little because they are a long way away, but some stars are closer than the planets

Keith S. Taber

Sophia was a participant in the Understanding Science Project. When I interviewed her in her first year of secondary school (Y7 in the English school system). I asked her about what she remembered about the science she had studied in primary school. She told me about she had studied the topic of space, and had learnt about the nine planets. When I asked her if she could name the planets she produced a list of planets including both the moon and sun: "Pluto, Jupiter, Venus, Uranus, Earth, the Sun, the Moon".

[Read 'The sun is the closest of the eleven planets']

As Sophia thought the sun might be a planet, I asked her what a planet was:

Do you know what a planet is?

Erm, it's like – a round – a sphere, in space, kind of. Though we don't know if people live, animals live there or not.

…If I say someone was going through space, in a spaceship, and they are a long, long way away from earth, they've gone a long way across space, and they came across something in space…And er one of the crew said 'oh that's a planet'. And another one of the crew said 'no, that's not a planet'. And you were in charge, you were the captain. How would you decide who was right, whether that was a planet or not in space?

Er

(pause, c.5s)

I'd look if it was all the things that you thought a planet was.

Good, and what would that be?

If it was round, if it was a bit lumpy, a bit – if it was quite big, not like a little star, well there's no stars that little…

It seemed that Sophia (reasonably) thought stars would be larger than planets, which invited an obvious question, that I assumed would have an almost-as-obvious answer.

Why do they [the stars] look so little?

Because they are a long way away.

Oh, I see. So they are big really?

Yeah.

Okay. What's the difference between a star and a planet then?

A star's made up of different things, but planets – can't – cause you don't really see a planet, so you just see stars quite lot.

That's true, there is lots and lots of stars up there, isn't there? So how can you see the stars and not the planets, do you think?

I think the stars, some stars are closer, maybe, than planets.

There seemed to be something of a contradiction here. Sophia thought that 

  • stars were not as 'little' as planets
  • but they seemed little because they were a long way away.
  • but the stars were easier to see than planets
  • so they might be closer to us than the planets.

Both these arguments are logical enough suggestions (things seem smaller, and may be harder to see, if they are a long way off), but there was a lack of integration of ideas as her two explanations relied on seemingly inconsistent premises (that the stars are "are a long way away" but could be "closer, maybe, than planets").

It seemed that Sophia was not aware, or was not bringing to mind, that stars were self-luminous whereas planets were only seen by reflected light. Lacking (or not considering) that particular piece of information acted as a 'deficiency learning impediment' and led to her explaining why the planets could be more difficult to see by suggesting they might not be as close as some stars.

Not considering luminosity as a criterion also seemed to explain why she was not clear that the (self-luminous) sun was not a planet.

[Read 'The sun is the closest of the eleven planets']

The sun is the closest of the eleven planets

Keith S. Taber

Sophia was a participant in the Understanding Science Project. When I interviewed her in her first year of secondary school (Y7 in the English school system). I asked her about what she remembered about the science she had studied in primary school. She told me about she had studied the topic of space.

So what did you learn about space?

All the planets, and – 

(pause, c.2 s)

So how many planets are there?

Nine.

Nine, okay. Do you know them all?

No (laughs)

Do you know some of them?

Erm. Pluto, Jupiter, Venus, Uranus, Earth, the Sun, the Moon – (pause, c.2s) hm.

[This was a few years back, and I think was before Pluto was demoted from full planet status in the scientific community.] So, Sophia seemed to have an alternative conception of what would be considered a planet, and she was counting both the moon and the sun among the planets. After a little further conversation about other candidates we came up with a list of more than nine planets.

So how many does that make?

(Sophia laughs)

(Pause, c.6s)

Is there eleven?

Well you said there was nine, didn't you?

Yeah. (laughing)

How could that be, how could we get these extra two?

(Pause, c.4s)

… So, Mercury, is that a planet?

Hm.

Okay, Venus?

Yep.

Earth?

Uh hm.

Mars?

Yeah.

The Moon?

Hm, yeah.

Yeah, Jupiter?

(Pause, 2.s)

Saturn?

(Pause, 2.s)

The Sun?

I'm not sure about the Sun.

Not sure about the Sun.

I think so.

Neptune?

Uranus?

Yep.

Pluto?

Uh hm.

So Sophia was not entirely sure the sun should be considered as planet, although she seemed more confident about the moon. The earth and moon are not technically considered as a double planet system, even though the moon is unusually large satellite compared the the planet it orbits, as the system's centre of mass is within the earth. (Strictly, the earth, as well as the moon, orbits their joint centre of mass.)

As Sophia thought the sun might be a planet, I asked her what a planet was, and the difference between planets and stars. She suggested that some stars are closer to us than the planets.

[Read 'Some stars are closer than the planets']

Not considering luminosity to be a factor, Sophia did not consider the sun to be a star:

What's the closest planet to you?

Erm – the Sun?

Yeah?

If it is a planet.

I think that might there might have been a trick question there. Which is the closest planet to you?

To me?

Yeah.

Earth.

This can only mean…it's the core of a giant planet

Keith S. Taber

Image by LoganArt from Pixabay 

My interest was piqued by an item in the BBC Radio 4 news bulletin broadcast at 17.01 today (Wed 1st July 2020). Science reporter, Paul Rincon, reported:

Giant planets like Jupiter and Saturn have a solid planetary core beneath a thick atmosphere of gas, but no one has ever been able to see what these solid cores are like.
Now a team of astronomers has found an object that fits the description, orbiting a star like the sun that's 730 light years away.
The team knew the object must be the core of a giant planet,
because it is unusually dense for its size. It's about three and a half times bigger than earth, but thirty nine times heavier.
Objects with these properties are thought to draw gas in to form giant planets. Astronomers are planning more observations which could test ideas about how planets form.

Item on BBC Radio 4 PM News on 1st July 2020

Some years back I wrote a Reflection on Teaching and Learning Physics column called 'Documentaries can only mean one thing', as a response to my frustration about how science in the media was presented. Even quality science programmes that I really enjoyed, such as Horizon documentaries, would commonly include the phrase "this could only mean".

This was seldom, if ever, justified. What was meant was that the scientist concerned considered one particular interpretation to be convincing. The scientists themselves were unlikely to ever claim that there was only one possible interpretation of the data – but the writers and journalists clearly thought that viewers needed certainty.

This is important, of course, because we try to teach young people about the nature of science – and that means that all theories are underdetermined by evidence, and that scientific knowledge is technically provisional – open to being revisited in the light of new evidence or a new perspective that makes better sense of the data. Science involves argumentation to seek to persuade the community, and even when consensus is reached, the community can later revisit the issue.

So any suggestion that "this can only mean [whatever]" belongs in a different domain to the natural sciences – perhaps logic or mathematics. Any journalists who insist on presenting science in this way are undermining the work of school science teachers charged with teaching young people about the nature of science. So my question here is:

[did] the team know the object [that is, the object believed to be 730 light years away] must be the core of a giant planet?

No, of course not. This might be their current preferred interpretation, but it is not something they know for certain.

Because, they are not ideologues, or prophets, but scientists.

And the one thing a scientist can know for certain, is that scientific knowledge is never certain.